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Andrew Yassin
Member since Mar-6-07
12 posts
Apr-21-09, 06:04 PM (PST)
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"DCA and ketogenic diet?"
 
   DCA and ketogenic diet?
Sorry if repeat, but my post didn't show up anymore.

Dear all,
I have recently had a minor recurrence for a brain tumor. It is still most likely an oligodendroglioma WHO3.

This last week I have started a strict ketogenic diet (thus eliminating almost all carbohydrates, and wolfing down huge amounts of fat; butter, coconut oil etc etc along with some protein - mostly eggs). This kind of diet has been shown to have a powerful effect on brain tumors (paper by Linda Nebeling, 1995).

In brief, this shifts the bodies main energy source from glucos to ketones. I just learnt that fat (and protein) can be transformed into glucose in the liver (gluconeogenesis). This leads to a very steady and low blood sugar curve over time.

This starves tumor tissue since available glucose for glycolysis is reduced. But normal brain cells (neurons) are actually strengthened. They create more mitochondria as a response to the influx of ketone bodies.

I am thinking of combining this dietary approach with DCA during the time up to surgery in ca 4-6 weeks time.

Any thoughts on this?

I read in the big DCA paper that DCA also decreases the rate of oxidation of fat in the GBM tumor line, along with lowering the rate of glycolysis. Thus I think that the combination can be additive, or possibly synergistic!

Please comment!

Cheers, Andrew


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DCA and ketogenic diet? [View All], Andrew Yassin, 06:04 PM, Apr-21-09, (0)  
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billn
Member since Apr-27-07
145 posts
Apr-23-09, 11:57 AM (PST)
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2. "RE: DCA and ketogenic diet?"
In response to message #0
 
I looked into this sometime ago and found that the ketogenic diet forces the body into acidosis (makes it more acidic) - I stopped looking then as there is much on the site about trying to make the body more alkaline not acidic in order to make it harder for the cancer cell to survive.

One problem is (I think these are the right words) the bodies homeostasis, where when you try to change the ph the body compensates. ie, when the bloodstream becomes too acidic, calcium is released from the bones, when too alkaline, calcium is absorbed into the bones.

Perhaps I got it wrong and the ketogenic diet forces calcium to be released, then this calcium is absorbed by the cells, and cancer cells don't like alkaline conditions.

Billn


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dimitriskmoderator
Member since Mar-19-08
205 posts
Apr-23-09, 02:12 PM (PST)
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3. "RE: DCA and ketogenic diet?"
In response to message #2
 
   As you know, PH treatment is not acceptable by mainstream medicine. While my sister was on a strict vegan diet, her PH never got higher than 5.50. Now she takes 1 teaspoon of baking soda 3 times per day, and dhe has raised her PH at > 8.

DCA fights acidocis, so ketogenic diet + DCA makes sense. However, I've never read anyone using this approach. Googling around, I see that ketogenic diet inhibits tumor growth in mice. Adding DCA seems pretty good idea, but I don't know how well it works in real life.

Artemisinin/artesunate treatment could be also considered, but I don't know if it works with ketogenic diet.


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Andrew Yassin
Member since Mar-6-07
12 posts
Apr-23-09, 05:55 PM (PST)
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4. "RE: DCA and ketogenic diet?"
In response to message #3
 
   OK - good to see response here!

This below is a fact.
A Ketogenic diet aids in making tumor tissue LESS acidic. It is the process of aerobic glycolysis that renders tumors acidic. Thus, reducing the amount of glucose available, shifting to ketone bodies, normalizes tumor pH. Recent animal studies has shown this.

Low pH in acidic tumors tends to downregulate the activity of immunecells that otherwise might target the tumor.


Thus, a ketogenic diet is likely to augment the efficacy of immunological cancer treatments.

As for keto and DCA, it seems likely that a ketogenic diet should make one less sensitive to some of the side effects. With a metabolism geared towards ketones as primary fuel, any DCA-induced lowering of available blood glucose should be less of a worry.

I will today check out a suitable dosage of DCA, and start taking it tomorrow. This will be part of my "neo-adjuvant" strategy, thus targeting the tumor prior to conventional therapy (ie, surgery).

All the best,

Andrew


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Sandramoderator
Member since Feb-27-07
818 posts
Apr-23-09, 06:40 PM (PST)
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5. "RE: DCA and ketogenic diet?"
In response to message #0
 
I agree it should work well with most cancers. Perhaps it would have limited use with ones that can switch to fat metabolism (like breast and prostate). I see Jim has been researching FAS inhibitors to try to beat resistance with DCA.
http://www.thedcasite.com/DCA_and_vanadium.html


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algarve7
Member since Aug-8-09
3 posts
Sep-24-09, 09:24 AM (PST)
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6. "RE: DCA and ketogenic diet?"
In response to message #5
 
   We are going to give the Ketogenic diet a go for breast cancer, combined with 10mg/kg DCA, 400mg Artemisinin, 4.5mg LDN, 165mg Maitake Pro D-Fraction, 12000 IU Vitamin D3, and a number of other things every day.

Some patient results with the Ketogenic diet:

Blood glucose, lactate, and pyruvate concentrations decreased and there was a trend towards a reduced plasma alanine with the establishment of systemic ketosis.

Because lactate, pyruvate, and alanine can act as substrates for gluconeogenesis, it is possible that the changes in substrate concentrations associated with systemic ketosis might reduce the rate at which glucose is supplied to the tumor. Moreover, the trend towards elevated blood levels of fat-derived energy substrates (free fatty acids and ketone bodies) and reduction in blood glucose concentration emphasize the potential of systemic ketosis in maintaining the supply of energy to the host while reducing glucose
supply to the tumor.

From: Cancer cachexia: influence of systemic ketosis on substrate levels and nitrogen metabolism
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/47/1/42.pdf


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algarve7
Member since Aug-8-09
3 posts
Oct-10-09, 09:24 PM (PST)
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7. "RE: DCA and ketogenic diet?"
In response to message #6
 
   The Ketogenic diet is most effective when it is combined with calorie restriction. That's very important. Calorie restriction alone has been shown to have a significant effect on cancer growth, but combined with a high fat diet, we can avoid weight loss and cachexia.

Important fats are coconut oil, butter, flaxseed oil, fish oil, cod liver oil and some olive oil.

There is an interesting paper here:

The calorically restricted ketogenic diet, an effective alternative
therapy for malignant brain cancer

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1743-7075-4-5.pdf


And another interesting one on the same topic here:

Carbohydrate restriction in patients with advanced cancer - a protocol to assess safety and feasibility with an accompanying hypothesis

http://www.communityoncology.net/journal/articles/0501022.pdf


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