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DCA Discussion Forum
Michael
Member since Feb-22-07
5 posts |
Feb-27-07, 01:58 PM (PST) |
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"Are there other drugs similar to DCA?"
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First, a word of warning. I am not a doctor, pharmacist, biologist or chemist. We've some very clever people on this forum, so perhaps they can comment on my thoughts below (and probably point out the basic flaws!)
It occurred to me that other chemicals might have a similar effect to DCA. My reading of the article by Michelakis is that DCA inhibits PDK, and that this reverses the inhibition of PDH. Once PDH is being made again pyruvate metabolism shifts from glycolysis to glucose oxidation in the mitochondria. Now apoptosis can take place and the cancer cells start to self destruct.
It seems to me that everything flows from the inhibition of PDK, and this is confirmed as the major mechanism of DCA on page 45 of the paper. (I can't determine if there are other mechanisms.) Since DCA is difficult to lay hands on I had a look for other chemicals that would inhibit PDK. 10 minutes with Google brought up three:
- Ranolazine, also known as Ranexa
- L-carnitine
- Lauric Acid Leelamide I spent a few minutes looking up these chemicals, and I'm sure none of them should be considered by our readers. But what do the doctors and pharmacists on this group think? Are there other compounds which have the same effect as DCA in inhibiting PDK? Are they as relatively harmless as DCA? If so, are they easier to lay hands on? As I have said elsewhere in this forum, my daughter is suffering from melanoma. I hope that something will come from here, or elsewhere, that will give her the life she expected. Best wishes to all, to the 'labrats', and to Heather for managing the forum. Michael |
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 Are there other drugs similar to DCA? [View All],
Michael, 01:58 PM, Feb-27-07, (0)
- RE: Are there other drugs similar to DCA?,
john c.
 , Feb-27-07, 02:18 PM, (1)
- RE: Are there other drugs similar to DCA?,
prime3end , Mar-19-07, 05:39 AM, (3)
- RE: Are there other drugs similar to DCA?,
Dr McKinney, May-28-07, 10:32 PM, (7)
- RE: Are there other drugs similar to DCA?,
Dr McKinney, May-28-07, 10:50 PM, (8)
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john c.
unregistered user
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Feb-27-07, 02:18 PM (PST) |
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1. "RE: Are there other drugs similar to DCA?"
In response to message #0
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Michael: I know there are chemical similarities of apple cider vinegar to DCA, but ... not being a chemist, biologist, or oncologist, I am not sure if apple cider vinegar would have the same mitochondrial reactivation benefits as does DCA. Doseage would also be an issue/question. Is there anyone on this site who could offer speculation on this? I asked Drs. Archer and Michelakis this question about four weeks ago, but, of course, received no response. John C. |
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prime3end
unregistered user
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Mar-19-07, 05:39 AM (PST) |
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3. "RE: Are there other drugs similar to DCA?"
In response to message #0
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In a study by _________ Sabet at a california school, he studied melanoma and determined that the overexpression of telomerase was the point at which glycolysis was activated in melanoma. Curcumin and EGCG from green tea work with synergy to inhibit telomerase. Personally I would try DCA with these other two. Here is my messy site with some natural telomerase inhibitors as well as a couple of approved drugs that manage to inhibit it too::::
www.geocities.com/prime3endPrime3end |
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Prime3end
unregistered user
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Mar-19-07, 11:28 AM (PST) |
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5. "RE: Are there other drugs similar to DCA?"
In response to message #4
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Glad I could be of help! Good to meet you too. I'll tell ya, 7 years of automated and manual google searches for something that works and I've not seen a paper as good as the DCA paper in cancer cell! I'm excited! I would like to see people given better dosage information though. That the government isn't stepping up the plate to help is typical, just another continuous Katrina to them. Good name for the response from Health Canada and the FDA, a Continuous Katrina. How dare they tell the 500,000 Americans they send home to die every year, NOT to try DCA, and to allow and create roadblocks in their path to getting it, and making an educated guess about dosage. How dare they. Also, I've heard that DCA can be bought for around $40 a kilo from Sigma Aldrich if you have an account as a researcher, phd behind the name and a vendors license perhaps, but I don't think you have to be a PHD to be a researcher. By the way, DCA is a an unintended by-product of water clorination, in very tiny amounts. It is studied by water researchers for its effects on humans, animals, algae, fish, etc. There are studies on this. Perhaps another study on fish would be a good idea?!!! I spoke with a friend in Fla the other day who claims his pals wife's breast cancer is slowly shrinking , she is doing 8 grams of curcumin a day, opening up the capsules into her food all other treatments are done. Am waiting for more info. I do believe there is synergy with multiple compounds in the inhibition of telomerase, DCA has me dancing with not just hope but with excitement!!! LEF told me on the phone not to do more than 15mg of bioprene per day, which is in their super curcumin to increase absorption. One could take 3 900mg caps a day with bioprene and the rest without bioprene. |
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Dr McKinney
Member since May-28-07
3 posts |
May-28-07, 10:32 PM (PST) |
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7. "RE: Are there other drugs similar to DCA?"
In response to message #0
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>First, a word of warning. I am not a doctor, pharmacist,
>biologist or chemist.
>
>We've some very clever people on this forum, so perhaps they
>can comment on my thoughts below (and probably point out the
>basic flaws!)
>
>
>It occurred to me that other chemicals might have a similar
>effect to DCA. My reading of the article by Michelakis is
>that DCA inhibits PDK, and that this reverses the inhibition
>of PDH. Once PDH is being made again pyruvate metabolism
>shifts from glycolysis to glucose oxidation in the
>mitochondria. Now apoptosis can take place and the cancer
>cells start to self destruct.
>
>It seems to me that everything flows from the inhibition of
>PDK, and this is confirmed as the major mechanism of DCA on
>page 45 of the paper. (I can't determine if there are other
>mechanisms.)
>
>Since DCA is difficult to lay hands on I had a look for
>other chemicals that would inhibit PDK. 10 minutes with
>Google brought up three:
>- Ranolazine, also known as Ranexa
>- L-carnitine
>- Lauric Acid Leelamide
>
>I spent a few minutes looking up these chemicals, and I'm
>sure none of them should be considered by our readers.
>
>But what do the doctors and pharmacists on this group think?
> Are there other compounds which have the same effect as DCA
>in inhibiting PDK? Are they as relatively harmless as DCA?
>If so, are they easier to lay hands on?
>
>As I have said elsewhere in this forum, my daughter is
>suffering from melanoma. I hope that something will come
>from here, or elsewhere, that will give her the life she
>expected. Best wishes to all, to the 'labrats', and to
>Heather for managing the forum.
>
>Michael
Neil McKinney, ND |
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Dr McKinney
Member since May-28-07
3 posts |
May-28-07, 10:50 PM (PST) |
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8. "RE: Are there other drugs similar to DCA?"
In response to message #0
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I am a naturopathic oncologist, and have several patients self-treating with DCA. My readings of the diabetes studies caused concern about the neuro-toxic effects in the short-term use, so I have done a lot of reading of the scientific literature to see if there are any less-toxic materials that inhibit pyruvate dehydrogenase kinase, like DCA does. There is evidence CoEnzyme Q10 100 mg 3 times a day and R+ alpha lipoic acid 150 mg 3 times daily ( I use a sustained release form) will inhibit this enzyme. I suggest these may be useful both during and between courses of the DCA. Both of these are non-toxic, widely available in health stores or pharmacies, and have some level of human studies showing efficacy in cancer.
I have also suggested to patients that there are two supplements which can reduce the demyelination of nerves by DCA, both proven to work in human diabetic neuropathy, namely the benfotiamine form of vitamin B1 or thiamine (available OTC in Canada from AOR brand) and most immportant, the alpha lipoic acid (R+ SR form). This seems to be working, allowing a longer course of treatment. I am observing some positive responses.I have also found lots of animal and cell research (human trials are rare) sugggesting several other supports may help restore mithochondrial function. Since we have been awakening mithochondria successfully for years in disorders such as fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome, I think this is a realistic therapeutic goal. The leaders appear to be quercitin ( with bromelain or bioperine for absorption), reishi mushroom extract, grapeseed extract and magnesium malate. Note that I have used all of these for cancer for years and feel they have real value. They were in my book published about 4 years ago, long before DCA was discovered. Now I understand another aspect of why they have been useful, namely helping with mitochindrial rescue. This is not a solicitation for business. I am happy to share my knowledge with those brave enough to experiment with this new therapy, which I think may be useful, in short courses and with management of its risks. www.drneilmckinney.ca Neil McKinney, ND |
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