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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Jul-25-08, 08:49 AM (PST)
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"Prostate Cancer"
 
   Hi!

My dad (58) was diagnosed with prostate-cancer in august 2006. He had a radical prostatectomy in september 2006. Because his psa levels were rising again after a few months, he had radiation-therapy in april/may 2007. The psa went down a bit, but started rising again after a while.

My dad is still strong and feeling good, so he decided not to take a hormone-therapy. He went to Italy for a sodiumbicarbonate-treatment, but this failed.

He is on DCA now for about 2 months. The first 3 weeks he took 60mg per kilogram of bodyweight. He took it once a week. After 3 weeks his psa was still rising (from 1.45 to 1.88 in 4 weeks). So he decided to take the same dose, but 3 times a week. Since he's doing this, he feels that the dca is active in his body. The side-effects a serious. ICE-COLD feet (he feels the cold, but i cant feel anything when i touch his feet) with total numbness in the toes and fingertops. Diziness, sleepyness and he was confused for a few days. He didnt take the dcs for a week because it was too heavy to deal with the confusion. He also takes 200mg of B1 a day and drinks caffeine (coffee and 1 very strong cup of black tea) every day.

The confusion is gone, but the ice-cold feet et cetera a still there. Any suggestions how we can reduce these side-effects? I was thinking about alpha lipoic acid...

We still dont know his current psa-status, but i'll keep you all updated (i think he'll have his blood tested in about 3 weeks).


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Jul-25-08, 03:45 PM (PST)
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1. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #0
 
   I went to an alternative doc and he subscribed L-Glutamine, acetyl-L-carnitine, rhodiola and vasogreen (from PURO). The combination of these should reduce the side-effects of the dca down to an acceptable level or even stop them. The Rhodiola should also have a caffeine-effect on the dca.
My dad took the first supplements today. I'll keep you all posted about the results...


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Sandra
Member since Feb-27-07
714 posts
Jul-25-08, 07:43 PM (PST)
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2. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #0
 
Roy,
I'd like to suggest you read this thread:
http://www.thedcasite.com/dcaforum/DCForumID2/244.html

I think your father may see a spike in PSA levels from inflammation caused by his high dose usage of DCA.

Take care, best wishes,
Sandra


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Jul-25-08, 08:16 PM (PST)
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3. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #2
 
   Hello Sandra,

thanks for the link...i keep that in mind if the supplements he got today dont work well.

What do you mean with a spike? That the levels go up or that they stay the same? (i'm sorry...im not a native -english- speaker).
I didnt hear about the possibilty of inflammation before. So it should take a longer time for the levels to drop?
I talked to the Dutch oncologist who had prostate-cancer and he told me that the higher the dose, the better the fight against the cancer-cells.

Thanks for your help.

Roy


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Sandra
Member since Feb-27-07
714 posts
Jul-25-08, 09:34 PM (PST)
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4. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #3
 
Hi Roy,

By 'spike' I mean the PSA level may increase. Here's some information on what can cause this:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prostate-cancer/HO00032
http://www.hypertext.org/ENGLISH/PSA.html#rise
Killing off cancer too quickly may cause inflammation.

I don't understand why your father was only taking DCA once a week. Medicor Cancer Clinic does not dose that way.
Quote:
'We have treated patients with a dose of DCA ranging between 15mg/kg/day and 75mg/kg/day. On average, most patients receive a dose of approximately 25mg/kg/day. We are presently treating patients with a cyclic regimen of 1-3 weeks on followed by 1 week off. This regimen is adjusted to suit each individual patient by our physicians.'
http://www.medicorcancer.com/DCAtherapyData.html

If you are using caffeine be cautious about too high a dose of DCA.


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Jul-25-08, 10:00 PM (PST)
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6. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #4
 
   Thanks for the information. The Dutch oncologist suggested to only take the dca once a week because my dads psa levels were still very low. We thought the same...because of the low levels. He had metastasis all over his body, so it seemed to be too aggressive for my dad to take the DCA too often. But unfortunately we were wrong...

My dads prostate was radically removed in 2007. Do you think that just cancercells may inflame? We have no proof of metastasis, but its likely because the psa levels are still rising after surgery and radiation.

Do you think that the spike will be temporary? Lets hope so.

Thank you.

Roy


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Sandra
Member since Feb-27-07
714 posts
Jul-25-08, 09:50 PM (PST)
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5. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #3
 
I think it is important that you add at least Benfotiamine (a bioavailable form of thiamine) to your father's supplements, based on this study below.

Here is info on Benfotiamine:
http://www.aor.ca/int/magazines/pdf/Benfotiamine_FALL_03.pdf


The pharmacology of dichloroacetate

Peter W. Stacpoole a, b,

a Department of Medicine (Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism), University of Florida. College of Medicine, Gainesville, USA.
b Department of Pharmacology, University of Florida. College of Medicine, Gainesville, USA.

Available online 2 April 2004.

Abstract

Dichloroacetate (DCA) exerts multiple effects on pathways of intermediary metabolism. It stimulates peripheral glucose utilization and inhibits gluconeogeneis, thereby reducing hyperglycemia in animals and humans with diabetes mellitus. It inhibits lipogenesis and cholesterolgenesis, thereby decreasing circulating lipid and lipoprotein levels in short-term studies in patients with acquired or hereditary disorders of lipoprotein metabolism. By stimulating the activity of pyruvate dehydrogenase, DCA facilitates oxidation of lactate and decreases morbidity in acquired and congenital forms of lactic acidosis. The drug improves cardiac output and left ventricular mechanical efficiency under conditions of myocardial ischemia or failure, probably by facilitating myocardial metabolism of carbohydrate and lactate as opposed to fat. DCA may also enhance regional lactate removal and restoration of brain function in experimental states of cerebral ischemia. DCA appears to inhibit its own metabolism, which may influence the duration of its pharmacologic actions and lead to toxicity. DCA can cause a reversible peripheral neuropathy that may be related to thiamine deficiency and may be ameliorated or prevented with thiamine supplementation. Other toxic effects of DCA may be species-specific and reflect marked interspecies variation in pharmacokinetics. Despite its potential toxicity and limited clinical experience, DCA and its derivatives may prove to be useful in probing regulatory aspects of intermediary metabolism and in the acute or chronic treatment of several metabolic disorders.

Corresponding author. Address reprint requests to Peter W. Stacpoole, PhD, MD, Departments of Medicine (Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism) and Pharmacology, University of Florida College of Medicine, Gainesville, FL 32610
http://www.thedcasite.com/dca_human_studies.html

------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, lipoic acid has been shown to increase efficacy of DCA use:
http://www.thedcasite.com/alpha_lipoic_acid_and_dca.html.
R+ ALA is considered by many to be the best choice for alpha lipoic acids.This chat room link gives additional information.
http://www.thedcasite.com/dcaforum/DCForumID5/170.html
www.r-lipoic.com/ is good too.


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Jul-25-08, 10:05 PM (PST)
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7. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #5
 
   Thanks for the information. The Dutch oncologist suggested to only take the dca once a week because my dads psa levels were still very low. We thought the same...because of the low levels. He had metastasis all over his body, so it seemed to be too aggressive for my dad to take the DCA too often. But unfortunately we were wrong...
My dads prostate was radically removed in 2007. Do you think that just cancercells may inflame? We have no proof of metastasis, but its likely because the psa levels are still rising after surgery and radiation.

Do you think that the spike will be temporary? Lets hope so.

Thank you.

Roy


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Jul-25-08, 10:16 PM (PST)
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8. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #7
 
   i meant to say that the oncologist had these metastasis.


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Sandra
Member since Feb-27-07
714 posts
Jul-31-08, 07:07 AM (PST)
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9. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #7
 
>Thanks for the information. The Dutch oncologist suggested
>to only take the dca once a week because my dads psa levels
>were still very low. We thought the same...because of the
>low levels. He had metastasis all over his body, so it
>seemed to be too aggressive for my dad to take the DCA too
>often. But unfortunately we were wrong...
>My dads prostate was radically removed in 2007. Do you think
>that just cancercells may inflame? We have no proof of
>metastasis, but its likely because the psa levels are still
>rising after surgery and radiation.
>
>Do you think that the spike will be temporary? Lets hope so.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Roy

I really can't understand why a doctor would suggest dosing once a week with DCA. The half-life is about 24 hours, so that means if your dad took 60 mg/kg there would be 1/2 that in his body after 24 hours. At the end of a week, there would only be 1/128 of that amount left in his body, which is 0.46875 mg/kg. That's negligible. Dosing daily, or every second day with a lower amount would allow DCA to be active in the body much more of the time. I believe Dr. Michelakis' clinical trials are dosing daily.

Might I also suggest HMR Lignans, which work to block conversion of testosterone to DHT.
http://www.hmrlignan.com/html/science.htm
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00861.html?sourcecode=SKF16D


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Jul-31-08, 07:10 AM (PST)
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10. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #9
 
   Thank you Sandra!!! I appreciate your help.

My dad's side-effects are even worser now and he decided to stop taking DCA untill he feels better and then resume at a lower dose.


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Jul-31-08, 09:31 AM (PST)
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11. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #10
 
   The PSA went down from 2.25 to 0.86!


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Aug-12-08, 07:28 AM (PST)
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12. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #11
 
   update:

my dad is still off the DCA but the side-effects seem to get worser now.

He wants to resume the treatment asap with a much lower dose. But the side-effects are still too heavy to deal with. My dad is going to see a neurologist today to see what exactly is going on. I'll keep you posted.


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Sandra
Member since Feb-27-07
714 posts
Aug-12-08, 08:55 AM (PST)
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13. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #12
 
Hi Roy,

I suggested to Oracle that his wife try acupuncture when she had PN - and he said it is working for her. She went from using a walker, back to walking on her own again.

Take care,
Sandra


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Aug-20-08, 10:33 AM (PST)
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14. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #13
 
   Thank you...we will keep that in mind. My dad went to a neurologist and he also said that my dad's complaints are caused by peritoreal neuroptahy. But because the origin is toxic and not diabetical, he thinks that they will disappear after a while.

Since 2 days he feels very good and the side-effects are minimalised. Even his feet are feeling MUCH better now. We think that the intake of folic acid and a magnesium-infusion helped to get it all under control.

BUT today we heard that that his PSA is rising again. My dad is off the DCA for about a month now and the PSA rised from 0.86 to 1.2 in 3 weeks. This is the same kind of rising as it did before taking DCA (0.4 a month).

My dad will resume the treatment asap, but with a lower dose. Let's hope that this works and that we get it all under contol!


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parachute
Member since Mar-20-07
52 posts
Aug-23-08, 01:38 AM (PST)
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15. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #14
 
   Hi Roy,

Sorry to hear your dad is experiencing a return of PC. My cancer has returned following treatment and DCA has put my very aggressive cancer back into remission. Here are a few observations and suggestions from my own experience, as a prostate cancer patient.

Since your dad has had a prostatectomy his PSA levels are without doubt due to distant tumors. This is the only explanation for a PSA higher than 0.1 so long after surgery. The PSA value is less useful now as an indicator of your dad's prognosis than his PSA doubling time (PSADT). Ideally you'd like to get his PSADT higher than two years. You can use the online Prediction Tools here to figure out what's going on:

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/10088.cfm

DCA is powerful medicine and you need to be careful about side effects. I limit myself to 10mg/kg per day 5 days a week, and am getting excellent results. I'm experimenting now with a lower dose, since the less I take, the longer I can continue using it.

The coldness your dad notices in his feet is probably peripheral neuropathy (P/N), and this has two causes. One is that DCA causes erosion of the myelin sheath protecting nerves. The analogy is electrical wiring with frayed insulation. The other cause of P/N is inflammation. Alcohol, especially distilled spirits like cognac or whiskey, can cause inflammation and P/N. Some antibiotics like levofloxacin can also cause inflammation. In fact, in rare cases, Levaquin alone can initiate P/N. Therefore I'd suggest your dad reduce his DCA dose, totally avoid alcohol, and ask his physician to make sure when prescribing drugs to avoid versions that might promote inflammation.

Your dad should do more to protect against the side effects of DCA. For starters, I would suggest a widely available herbal preparation called Zyflamend to reduce inflammation. As a bonus, studies at Johns Hopkins suggest that Zyflamend may also promote apoptosis of prostate cancer cells.

More information about Zyflamend: http://www.newchapter.com/structure-functions/inflammation

I personally believe everyone taking DCA should also be using any brand of the following supplements. I buy from LEF mostly, but other companies including AOR are also excellent.

For liver protection:
LEF Mega Silymarin, 1 cap/day http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00702.html
LEF Hepatapro, 1 cap/day http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00656.html

For P/N:
Metagenics EPA DHA 6:1 One gram/day http://metagenics.com/products/detail.asp?pid=223
Nordic Naturals DHA One gram/day http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=YE-1010
LEF Homocystine Resist B6/B12/Folate Complex 1 cap/day http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00800.html
LEF Mega Benfotiamine One gram/day http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00925.html
LEF Super R-Lipoic Acid 600mg/day http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item01208.html
LEF Pantothenic Acid (B5) One gram/day http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00098.html
LEF Acetyl-L-Carnitine Argenate 2 caps/day http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00788.html
LEF Optimized Carnatine 4 caps/day http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00916.html

Vitamin B-12, sub-lingual tablets since B-12 is not well absorbed in the stomach.

And finally, I must tell you that your dad only has once chance to get this right. If he has insurance I hope he will obtain scans to determine where the cancer is now and ask his oncologist about salvage treatment early while the cancer is most vulnerable to treatment. This might include salvage radiation plus androgen blockade, his oncologist will know. Low dose DCA with these standard treatments may give him the boost he will need to achieve long term remission.

This book is the most important weapon for every prostate cancer patient:

A Primer On Prostate Cancer 2nd Ed., By Strum & Pogliano

http://www.amazon.com/Primer-Prostate-Cancer-Strum-Pogliano/dp/B000JKREHS/

Best wishes to you and your dad. Thank you for keeping the forum updated on his progress.

Keep the faith,

Parachute


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Sep-25-08, 07:38 AM (PST)
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16. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #15
 
   Update:

My dad is back on DCA. As i reported before, his PSA was rising again in his break. After 2 weeks of taking the DCA in a much lower dose, his PSA was stabile again. We are checking his PSA again in 4 weeks.

But the side-effects are still there. He gets more pain in his feet now and he has problems with walking. A Chinese doctor is helping now with acupuncture. His oncologist who was very sceptical about the DCA, is on his side now. He is helping and asked a collegue who is specialised in neuropathy to help my dad. He has an appointment there tomorrow.

The acupunture is not taking all pain away, but makes his feet feel normal so now and then. But it's not for a long time...only half an hour. But better than nothing! And he has to do some more sessions.


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Dec-22-08, 02:38 PM (PST)
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17. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #16
 
   It took a while, but i want to share our experiences with you.

The DCA worked well to fight the cancer (psa went from 2,25 to 0,86 in a few weeks), but my dad had to stop the treatment because the side-effects were getting too serious.
He could hardly walk and he had a lot of pain in his feet and leggs.
The Docs were affraid that the damage would be permanent is he didnt stop the treatment.

So he stopped with the DCA. His PSA levels were rising again (0.1 a week). Now, after 8 weeks he can walk again and he feels much better. The pain is there so now and then and walking goes better.

My dad is on MMS now and his PSA levels went down from 1,4 to 1,24 in 8 weeks. NO side-effects!!!! He feels very well now and he looks much better again (shining hair, etc).
He takes the MMS twice a day. 3 drips mixed with 15 drips of citric-acid.


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cooperge
Member since May-1-07
2 posts
Dec-28-08, 09:47 PM (PST)
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18. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #17
 
   What is MMS? Any details?

Thanks!


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Sandra
Member since Feb-27-07
714 posts
Dec-28-08, 09:51 PM (PST)
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19. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #18
 
http://miraclemineral.org/


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Apr-28-09, 12:54 PM (PST)
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20. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #19
 
   My dad is looking and feeling good, but unfortunately the MMS doesnt work anymore and his PSA is rising again. it's 3,6 now. The MMS made the PSA-level go down and after it started rising again, it slowed down the progress. He is still taking the MMS without side-effects. We dont know how the progress would be without the MMS...


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Sandra
Member since Feb-27-07
714 posts
Apr-28-09, 05:35 PM (PST)
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21. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #20
 
Hi Roy,

Sorry to hear that. Please read this thread:

http://www.thedcasite.com/dcaforum/DCForumID3/129.html

Parachute and I have been working on a protocol using Artemisinin. You many want to try this for your father. I've replace the Artemix in the protocol with Artesunate, because of Dimitrisk's sister's results in her chemo sensitivity test. There seems to be conflict with Artemether (which is in Artemix).

Very best wishes,
Sandra


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Roy
Member since Jul-25-08
18 posts
Apr-29-09, 06:57 AM (PST)
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22. "RE: Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #21
 
  
Hi Sandra,

thanks for the info. I'll check the info out and discuss it with our (alternative) doc. My dad's doc combines alternative and regular treatments.

We absolutely want to try GC-Maf for my dad. But the FDA still didnt give an approval. I wish we could get it NOW, but unfortunately...

Thanks again!

Roy


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