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Elias
Member since May-8-07
23 posts
Feb-12-08, 02:47 AM (PST)
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"Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
 
   Since I just satrted DCA with good results I thought I should share my news and my journey with a new Testimonial. I will try to be accurate so I will start with some background.

I am a 62 year old man and I been battling prostate cancer for almost 16 years. I have had surgery, then external beam radiation and some hormonal ablation for some years. Since my radiation, I have had no detectable tumors anywhere, all of my CAT scans, bone scans and x-rays have been clear for years. But I have been battling with my PSA
for years.

My PSA when up past 12 two years ago. and my doctor tried a few other drugs to bring it down. Although each drug worked in reducing my PSA, I had a bad reactions to both and was running out of options so I decided to try DCA.

I had a PSA done on December 6, 2007 and my PSA was back up to 12.9. I started DCA on January 8th and had a PSA test done on January 29th, My PSA was 8.1.

I want to let everyone know what my dose was and other vitamans and herbs I have been taking. I take 600mg twice per day (as per my body weight). I take the DCA 5 days a week and stop on the weekends. I still developed neuropathy, numbness and tingling my fingers after the second week so I started the Vitiman B1 and Alpha
Lipodic Acid. This greatly reduced the neuropathy I am happy to report.

I also take the following vitimans and herbal suppliments:

SUPPLIMENT Amout # times daily

Zyflamend capsule 1
Pomegranate Extract capsule 2
Vitamin D3 5000 IU 2 (not the D you buy a drug store)
IP6 (Inositol Hexaphosphate) 500mg 2
Selenium 200mc 1
SoyCare capsule 1
Vitamin E 400 IU 2
Aleve 220mg as needed
Flax Seed 1 tbs 2

I plan on stopping everything except the Vitiman D3, Selenium, and Vitamin E. I will Let you know what my next PSA test numbers are in March.


Elias


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Started DCA for Prostate Cancer [View All], Elias, 02:47 AM, Feb-12-08, (0)  
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adminadmin
Member since Feb-7-07
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Feb-12-08, 03:09 AM (PST)
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1. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #0
 
Elias,

Excellent, thank you for posting all of this! We all appreciate it. Keep up the good work - and best of luck!

Heather, Forum Moderator


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Elias
Member since May-8-07
23 posts
Feb-15-08, 01:39 AM (PST)
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2. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #1
 
  
Jim, the administrator of this website thought I should post the following information.

After reading the DCA and Caffine Protocals on this website, I wanted to add the following. I have been drinking Japanese green tea for about 10 years. I drink 3 to 4 large mugs of green tea per day, at work and at home. My brand is Yamamotoyama, if that means any thing. It is my morning, afternoon and evening drink of choice. I believe one of my mugs would be the equivalant of 1 and 1/2 cups.

So if tea is also a factor for sucess with DCA, I am on the right track. So far I have had a great report. I am looking forward to my next blood test.

Elias


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Elias
Member since May-8-07
23 posts
Feb-23-08, 05:10 PM (PST)
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3. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #2
 
   I had to stop DCA for a while, I started loosing my balance and the numbness in my fingers was started to bother me.

I stopped on Wednesday, 2/19/08 and my balance is returning. I still have some numbness in my fingers but intend to start again on Monday 2/25/08.

Elias


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Elias
Member since May-8-07
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Feb-26-08, 03:24 AM (PST)
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4. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #3
 
   It's Monday February 25th. I have re-started DCA at a lower dose, 250mg twice per day. I have lost some weight since I started, 7 lbs so I have decided to lower the DCA dose and increase my intake of and green tea, up to 5 of my mugs per day. That translates to about 6 or 7 cups.


Elias


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Sandramoderator
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Mar-01-08, 08:24 PM (PST)
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5. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #4
 
Elias,
I wondered if you are taking Benfotiamine with DCA? It's a more bioavailable form of thiamine. http://www.aor.ca/int/products/benfotiamine.php http://www.benfotiamine.net/ This should help with the balance and PN issues. R+ lipoic acid is also good - it's used by diabetics against PN, and there is a patent for R+ lipoic acid with DCA that produced greater tumor shrinkage in vivo.

Take care,
Sandra


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luke
Member since Oct-16-07
22 posts
Mar-02-08, 07:01 PM (PST)
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6. "benfotiamine"
In response to message #5
 
   Sandra,

what do yo mean with 'bioavailable form';
benfotiamine is not known by pharmacists in Belgium;
for the moment I take thiamine : is this ok too ?

Luke


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Sandramoderator
Member since Feb-27-07
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Mar-02-08, 10:49 PM (PST)
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7. "RE: benfotiamine"
In response to message #6
 
>Sandra,
>
>what do yo mean with 'bioavailable form';
>benfotiamine is not known by pharmacists in Belgium;
>for the moment I take thiamine : is this ok too ?

'Bioavailable' means it's more readily used by the body.
Here's a link to a study comparing Benfotiamine to thiamine:
http://tinyurl.com/2haugs
You can probably order benfotiamine on-line from one of the sites I listed above. I know AOR products are available in the UK. Much of the research on Benfotiamine is out of Germany, so perhaps you can have it shipped from there.


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luke
Member since Oct-16-07
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Mar-04-08, 11:05 AM (PST)
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8. "RE: benfotiamine"
In response to message #7
 
   Thank you Sandra,
I was a bit confused because the new protocol is called DCA - caffe´ne - vitamin B1;
I'll start taking benfotiamine again instead of vitamin B1 (thiamine);
certainly because the numbness in my feet isn't getting any better;
greetings;

Luke


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Sandramoderator
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810 posts
Mar-04-08, 05:33 PM (PST)
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9. "RE: benfotiamine"
In response to message #8
 
Hi Luke,
My MD recommended one other supplement for PN and that was B-12. I took this either by injection or sublingually (under the tongue). I think it would be helpful to have a blood panel done monthly - especially for electrolytes and liver enzymes.
Take care,
Sandra


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Sanzio
Member since Aug-23-07
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Mar-05-08, 08:47 AM (PST)
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10. "RE: benfotiamine"
In response to message #9
 
   Hello Sandra,

I hope you feel well.
Could you tell me what PN is?
Thank you for your answer.
Best wishes,
Sanzio


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Sandramoderator
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Mar-05-08, 03:26 PM (PST)
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11. "RE: benfotiamine"
In response to message #10
 
>Hello Sandra,
>
>I hope you feel well.
>Could you tell me what PN is?
>Thank you for your answer.
>Best wishes,
>Sanzio

Hi Sanzio,
PN is peripheral neuropathy - tingling (pins and needles) or numbness in fingers and toes. This is a side effect of many chemo drugs as well as DCA. Diabetics also experience PN and this is where much of the research on using Benfotiamine and R+lipoic acid for PN comes from.
Hope this helps,
Sandra


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Elias
Member since May-8-07
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Mar-20-08, 01:33 AM (PST)
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12. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #0
 
  
Saw my oncologist today and got the results of my latest PSA test, it was 7.75 down from 8.1, not as much of a drop as the last time, but it's better than going up. I have been drinking green tea for my caffeine but now I think I will switch to black tea to see if that makes any difference in the PSA reduction.

During my doctor visit we discussed the peripheral neuropathy and he said I should be taken vitamin B6 not B1. He said that is what he recommends to his patients that suffer peripheral neuropathy from chemotherapy. Since I am a vegetarian and at risk for a B12 deficiency, I plan on taking a B-complex supplement.

I was having difficulty with my balance due to the numbness in my toes. But it seems my nervous system took over and compansated by not relying on messages from my toes. So I am not as worried about that.

Elias


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Sandramoderator
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Mar-20-08, 04:16 AM (PST)
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13. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #12
 
Hi Elias,

That's great that your PSA is dropping!

I wanted to ask if you are taking alpha lipoic acid, or R+ lipoic acid. Here's an article explaining the important difference: http://www.r-lipoic.com/.

And here are a couple more:
http://www.aor.ca/int/related_research/r+-lipoic_acid.php
http://www.aor.ca/int/products/r+sr.php a timed release version

And I found with my balance issues, that my vision took over in place of sensory balance - so that if I closed my eyes while standing, I had a bit of trouble keeping my balance, but if my eyes were open I was fine. I think the body figures out how to compensate for losses.

Take care,
Sandra


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Elias
Member since May-8-07
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Mar-21-08, 01:50 AM (PST)
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14. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #13
 
  
Sandra,

Thanks, you are a fountain of information.


Elias


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Sandramoderator
Member since Feb-27-07
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Mar-22-08, 06:28 AM (PST)
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15. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #14
 
Elias,
My pleasure.

If I may point out one more supplement... it's HMR lignans. It is a much better source of lignans than flaxseed. (Breast cancer and prostate cancer have their similarities, so I've done some homework on this).
Here are a few links:
http://www.aor.ca/int/related_research/hmrlignan.php
http://www.aor.ca/int/papers/hmrlignan.php
http://www.hmrlignan.com/html/Swanson.pdf
http://www.hmrlignan.com/html/prostate.htm


Take care,
Sandra


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satx
Member since May-9-07
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May-04-08, 03:10 AM (PST)
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16. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #12
 
   caffeine turns out to a great anti-cancer drug, as mTOR inhibitor.

If caffeine in tea is really what's been synergizing with DCA, then I think cheap caffeine pills like NoDoz at the grocery store are a more reliable source. Take as much as you can.

I'm taking 2 x 200 mg in the morning, again at lunch, then 1 x 200 late/mid afternoon. Having no side effects, and no problem sleeping. I weigh about 195 pounds.


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Elias
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May-12-08, 08:27 PM (PST)
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17. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #16
 
  
Sorry for the silence but we moved back to Pennsylvania. The move took a lot out of me, but we are somewhat settled in our new home. I saw my oncologist just before we left up state NY. My PSA went up a little from 7.65 to 8.15. I had decreased the doseage of DCA down to 900mg per day from 1200mg per day because I lost some weight. Since that appointment with the oncologist I increase the dose back to 1200mg per day. I have to find an oncologist here in PA and have a PSA test.

So I may have anything to report for a while.

Elias


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parachute
Member since Mar-20-07
60 posts
May-12-08, 11:17 PM (PST)
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18. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #17
 
   Hi Elias,

I started taking DCA about six weeks ago, after experiencing biochemical failure following IMRT and 2.5 years hormonal blockade for prostate cancer. I owe a debt of gratitude to you and the many early adopters on this list for contributing to the pool of knowledge about DCA.

I wonder if you would clarify your dosage for me please? How much do you weigh, in pounds? How are you determining that you should take 1200 mg per day?

Thanks!

Randy


>I had
>decreased the doseage of DCA down to 900mg per day from
>1200mg per day because I lost some weight. Since that
>appointment with the oncologist I increase the dose back to
>1200mg per day. I have to find an oncologist here in PA and
>have a PSA test.


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Elias
Member since May-8-07
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Aug-10-08, 04:45 PM (PST)
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19. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #18
 
  

Randy,

Sorry for not getting back to you on your question about DCA dosage. By now I how you found the dosage calculator on this website. I stated with 600mg twice per day. That equates to 12mg per my body weight, 170lbs. I lost some weight since then and do to peripheral neuropathy I have lowered the dose to 10mg per my body weight.

As I have stated on other forums in this website, My PSA has been constant at the 7.9 to 8.1 range. I will post my next PSA when I get one done. I am now off DCA and will stay off to see if PSA has changed at all.

If there is any other information I can share please let me know.

Elias


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parachute
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Aug-11-08, 04:55 AM (PST)
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20. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #19
 
   Elias,

Congratulations on controlling your PSA in such a narrow range.

I suspect part of the P/N problem is that you've been inadvertently taking a stronger dose than you intended.

You weighed 170 pounds, there are 2.2 lbs per kg ... so your body weight was 77.27 kg.

Multiply this weight times 12 mg = 927.27 mg/day. In divided doses, you intended to take 464 mg twice a day, not 600 mg twice a day.

However, you were taking 1200 MG/day when you weighed 170 lbs which works out to 15.53 mg/kg.

You say you've lost weight since then... you may still be taking more than you intend.

Yes, the dosage calculator is a great convenience :-)

http://www.thedcasite.com/dca_dosage.html

Best wishes,

Randy


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Elias
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Oct-31-08, 02:11 AM (PST)
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21. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #20
 
  
Sorry for not having anything to post for a while.

I saw my doctor today. I had a bone scan, CAT scan and bloodwork. My scans were clear and my PSA is STILL maintaining at 7.78. I have been off DCA since May after being on it for two and half months. I am really pleased with these results. My PSA has remained in a range of 0.02+- for eight months. My next PSA will be sometime in February.


Elias


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Elias
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Jan-21-09, 02:30 AM (PST)
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22. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #0
 
  
I just got the results of my latest PSA test. My PSA is 7.7. This is my one-year mark for having a stable PSA in a range between 8.15 and 7.7 since taking DCA. My last dose of DCA was taking in April of 2008, since then I have not been on any medical treatment, traditional or otherwise. I am still taking my vitamins and other supplements listed in my original post. This PSA test marks the third straight decrease, however small, in may PSA.

Elias


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chrisz
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Jan-21-09, 03:59 AM (PST)
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23. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #22
 
   Elias,
great news.
and thanks for posting.
it helps everyone to know how things are going.
we hope to report some good news after we scan this week.

big energy to you...


chrisz


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parachute
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Jan-21-09, 05:05 PM (PST)
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24. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #22
 
   Thanks for the great news Elias!

Strong work :-)

Randy


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Elias
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May-28-09, 04:12 PM (PST)
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25. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #24
 
  
I have just received my latest PSA, it was 8.2. That is up by .5 from my previous reading in January. All my tests over the past year were lower each time. It is not a big jump but it still troubles me. I am considering a new round of DCA. Has anyone ever taken a second round of DCA? I am considering a smaller dose and shorter duration between now and my next PSA in September.

Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Elias


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parachute
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May-29-09, 04:24 AM (PST)
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26. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #25
 
   Hi Elias,

>I have just received my latest PSA, it was 8.2.
>That is up by .5 from my previous reading in January.

You and I are both post-treatment, that is to say, we've both had radiation and hormonal blockade. In this setting, the PSA score does not tell us as nearly as much about disease behavior as the PSA doubling time, or PSADT.

You can calculate your PSADT by entering the dates of your tests and the results, on this page:

http://www.mskcc.org/applications/nomograms/prostate/PsaDoublingTime.aspx

A PSADT of 24 months or longer is very good news, it means your cancer is growing slowly. (I have an aggressive cancer with a doubling time of 24 days, so you are fortunate.)

I would suggest you check your PSA at least four times a year, more often if you can, and track your doubling time using the calculator above.


>All my tests over the past year were lower each time.
>It is not a big jump but it still troubles me.

You are right to be alert. Regardless of doubling time, a PSA value of 8.2 indicates residual disease, especially if your surgery was a radical prostatectomy or RT.

>I am considering a new round of DCA.
>Has anyone ever taken a second round of DCA?
>I am considering a smaller dose and shorter duration
>between now and my next PSA in September.

I lost sensitivity to DCA in December 08. Although I've been forced to fall back on hormone ablation I intend to try DCA again. My thought is to use at least 12 mg/kg of body weight because I want to kill cancer cells, not give them a mild dose which might allow them to adapt.

One supplement you may wish to add to your protocol: HMR Spruce Lignans by Swanson Vitamins. This inhibits conversion of testosterone to the more potent cancer fuel, dihydrotestosterone.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU334/ItemDetail

Spruce lignans would be an alternative to a more powerful 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor like Avodart but without side effects. You mention you've done "some hormone ablation" but it might be helpful to know which medications you used, for how long, and why you discontinued them. Also, do you remember your Gleason score at the time of diagnosis and was your surgery a RT?

Best wishes to you,

Randy


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Elias
Member since May-8-07
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May-29-09, 03:56 PM (PST)
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27. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #26
 
  
Randy,

Thanks for the information. My only concern with starting DCA again is the periferal neuropathy. The bottoms of the feet are still numb from my last course of DCA, and that was last year.


Elias


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parachute
Member since Mar-20-07
60 posts
May-29-09, 06:43 PM (PST)
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28. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #27
 
   Elias,

You don't mention which drugs you've used to which you had a bad reaction. And I don't know whether your disease has become hormone refractory. But with a PSA of only 8.2 I wonder if you could tolerate three months of ADT4 using for example, Eligard, Flutamide and Avodart with High Dose Ketoconzale (you would not need the HDK unless the disease is refractory).

Your doubling time is remarkably slow, and this strategy would buy you the time you need to let the PN subside before using another round of DCA.

Best wishes,

Randy


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Elias
Member since May-8-07
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May-29-09, 08:01 PM (PST)
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29. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #28
 
  
Randy,

My PCa is hormone refractory. I had a severe reaction to flutamide two years ago, and a bad reaction to nilandrin. My oncologist had suggested casodex since I have been off it for three years. Would you recomment MMS? Would MMS be an alternative to try?

Elias


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parachute
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60 posts
May-29-09, 10:12 PM (PST)
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30. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #29
 
   Elias,

I can't add anything to the discussions of MM elsewhere on this forum, but personally I would not rely on it since you are in a good position to turn back the clock using other methods and thereby gain significant years and QOL.

I would not resume Casodex because its earlier failure indicates the cancer has developed androgen receptor mutation, the risk is that the tumor will learn to utilize estrogen as fuel.

It sounds like you may be a good candidate for HDK and/or ADT4; here's some information on HDK:

http://prostate-cancer.org/resource/pdf/Is4-3.pdf

I believe Abiraterone acetate is now available in the UK, and you may be able to obtain it in the USA if you live near a teaching hospital:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/printerfriendlynews.php?newsid=140745

Another strategy to discuss with your oncologist would be Diethyl Stilbestrol with Dexamethasone. In this case he/she will want to pretreat you with Coumadin to prevent clotting problems and also zap the breast buds with radiation to prevent gynecomastia. There's some discussion here:

http://www.prostate-cancer.org/resource/pdf/Is1-1.pdf

Not having crossed the refractory threshold yet, I'm not as up on this stuff as I should be. Suggest you join http://www.hrpca.org and ask the experts. I think you will discover you have some powerful weapons remaining.

This disease is far more easily managed while the tumor burden is small, as suggested by your low PSA and slow doubling time. I would review available options with your oncologist, select one and go for it. Based on your past experience, you may gain a few years respite from the heavy duty treatments.

And you will still have DCA waiting in the wings while the PN wears off. My feet are still a little numb too, it sometimes feels like I'm wearing two pairs of socks :-)

Remember I am not a doctor; the above are just my 2ó and worth every penny.

All the best,

Randy



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Elias
Member since May-8-07
23 posts
May-30-09, 01:22 AM (PST)
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31. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #30
 
  
Thanks Randy. It looks like I need to crank up the research again.

Elias


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Elias
Member since May-8-07
23 posts
Sep-01-09, 06:43 AM (PST)
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32. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #31
 
  
I think I am ready to restart DCA. I will use the DCA - tea - B1 therapy. I will keep everyone informed.

Elias


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cooperge
Member since May-1-07
3 posts
Sep-03-09, 11:19 AM (PST)
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33. "RE: Started DCA for Prostate Cancer"
In response to message #32
 
   Thank you so much, as the specifics here will be very helpful. That is, if you as a relative expert could provide exact dose and schedule and source for these things so as to eliminate the guesswork for neophytes, this would be a real service.


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